wait, we will lose xEyes?
No, thanks to XWayland.
but it doesn’t work perfectly, xeyes through XWayland only follows your cursor if it’s hovering another XWayland window
which makes it a fun way to see which apps use XWayland tho!
KDE has you covered. Someone made an applet that works on Wayland too: https://github.com/luisbocanegra/plasma-cursor-eyes
Between that and the uutils-coreutils, Ubuntu 25.10 sounds like it’ll be an interesting experience for users, especially those with accessibility and internationalisation needs.
I fully agree with you on the accessibility front. It’s not even good on X11, but it’s unusable on Wayland, from what I understand :( Accessibility on Linux needs a massive funding and development initiative, and it needed to be done a long time ago.
But uutils is pretty solid. I’ve swapped out my GNU coreutils entirely (on Arch, not Ubuntu, because I value my time too much to be troubleshooting broken snaps) and haven’t run into any issues. I think people are underestimating how close the compatibility already is. I’m sure something I use at some point will try to invoke an option that doesn’t exist in the uutils version, but it’s been solid for me so far.
Yeah, I think those are just lacking in the internationalisation?
People like me, who at most have some reading glasses needs and have their computer set to generally English utf-8 will be likely be fine.
internationalization
Interesting point. I don’t actually know about that. What can the GNU coreutils do with regard to internationalization? Just the output of commands, or can they also internationalize stuff like command args?
I’m generally an
en_*.UTF-8user (even trieden_DK.UTF-8for a bit for a reason we’ll come back to), so I don’t have a complete picture of it and would have to go look at the documentation or source for that, but I’d expect- documentation
- date formats:
en_DK.UTF-8should give you ISO8601-formatted dates, if I can’t have that I at least want DD/MM/YYYY; the US-american nonsense is just plain unacceptable - sorting: e.g. Norwegian will have …zæøå and expect
aato be sorted aså, the Swedes have …zåöä, the Germans …zäöü, the Turks will want ı and İ sorted and upper/lowercased correctly, and there are some options around how you deal with “foreign” letters and diacritics. - Probably more stuff relating to
LC_*that I can’t think of off the top of my head
but in any case, an
ls -loutput should be different depending on your locale, and in ways you likely don’t even think about as long as it looks normal.
It’s not the viability of the rust replacement of uutils that is the core of my issue. My issue is that mature code that has been tested, audited, and is stable has been removed for no viable reason other than it could have bugs.
It’s not for no viable reason. Rust is just safer than C. There absolutely are bugs with GNU coreutils, so it’s not even a hypothetical like you implied. But beyond safety, some of the Rust equivalents are more performant than their C counterparts.
And uutils is already heavily tested against the GNU coreutils. It’s not some fly-by-night rewrite that people aren’t serious about. I don’t know if it’s been formally audited yet, but it absolutely will be when companies like Canonical (and hopefully SUSE and Red Hat, one day) want to start shipping them.
Well, they do recommend using LTS releases and the specifically change stuff more drastically on the release before the next LTS release.
Yeah, I think the fact that the next LTS will be 26.04 is the driver here, I just get the impression that things might get a little rocky and that they might’ve been better off had the next LTS been further into the future.
But it’ll be a real smoke test release, at least. Hopefully they have enough resources to fix the issues that are uncovered, and don’t wind up reverting for the LTS, or with a crummy LTS.
How is wayland nvidia gaming at the moment?
Several months ago I tried gaming on wayland with nvidia and it was completely broken for me.
EDIT: Two days on wayland nvidia now, both gaming and using NVENC in OBS. It’s been amazing.
I’ve got an nvidia card and I’ve personally got no complaints about Wayland! been using it for some time to much success, I feel like x11 is just ‘off’ in comparison.
I’ve been gaming with a 2080ti in Wayland for about a year now. I can’t say I’ve had any issues related to my graphics card at all. The only hiccups I’ve had are with a couple of games, maybe two, that I had to tweak to run. They were known issues with public fixes. It’s been a great experience.
There was an issue a few months back with multi monitor setups. Anytime I changed a monitor input, it would hard lock. It’s fixed now.
Several months ago I had a similar experience. Even just running plasma with Wayland+Nvidia was enough to cause problems.
This was my experience. I could barely even get my machine to run.
Depends on the desktop environment in my experience. On Fedora Gnome it was an unstable mess with my Nvidia RTX card but Fedora KDE Plasma has been stable.
It was mainly on Nobara but I guess my negative experience also followed me from troubles in debian early 2024.
Just make sure the kernel modules are enabled and so are the systemd services. Shouldn’t have a problem. It’s been butter since they released the VRR fix a few months ago
Could you please guide me to relevant documentation for this?
For now I’ll just start at the Arch wiki for wayland.
Just that and the Nvidia Linux driver manuals or forums
https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/c/gpu-graphics/linux/148
I switched to wayland since arch had manual intervention on the latest update for kwin-x11 I decided it was time to take the plunge.
So far it’s actually amazing. In two days of gaming I’ve had a great experience and OBS has been awesome. I particularly like the pipewire handling of OBS over the x11 window capture.
I also went through the wayland and nvidia arch wiki pages before I started up my game and it looks like everything is now implemented by the nvidia drivers. I’m happy nvidia might finally be catching up, though, I won’t hold my breath as it still looks a little like the absolute bare minimum.
Games worked for me on Kubuntu, but a lot of other things were seriously broken. Compositor/Desktop effects did not work at all, weird screen artifacts, Taskbar crashes, Discord lags terribly and has display problems. I don’t know, if that is going to be the new Desktop experience, we’re gonna have a problem.
It works just fine for me on my RTX 3060 Ti. No significant performance decrease or stuttering at all (except in Cities Skylines II but that’s not Wayland’s fault)
Do you people ever think that Wayland is being sorta shoved down our throats ?
PipeWire wasn’t
Waylands initial release was 2008… I don’t think so at all…
Pipewire was released in like 2017 but the transition was a lot smoother than Wayland so that’s probably way it feels like that.
Perhaps
I’ve been waiting for Wayland to take over since like 2011 or some ancient time like that. I’m just glad it’s finally got some traction tbh.
Maybe we should wait until Wayland is more mature (Like having proper accesibility) ?
I am unaware of the current goings on, but tentatively yeah. Don’t force switch everyone to Wayland without taking care of accessibility features first.
wayland is a major overhaul that massively improves things dev-side, security-side and hardware-support side, pipewire is not nearly as important of a change, and pulse wasn’t nearly as horrible as x11
No it doesn’t, at least not yet, it’s half-complete & it’s being pushed on us a little too aggressively inspite of the fact that again it’s not fully mature & calling X11 horrible is a bit too dramatic on your part.
I can’t put it in words but it seems a bit odd.
Half complete is a nonsense claim, all that’s missing is better accessibility and some xdotool stuff. I’d go so far as to say that it’s x11 that’s half complete.
x11 is horrible… no way to support mixed refreshrate/dpi displays because it’s fundamentally against the design, as well as no model whatsoever for security… yeah, wayland needs accessibility sure but at least it isn’t fundamentally broken.
any app being able to keylog and screenread is my standard of a horrible model.
if you don’t need accessibility stuff or an extremely small subset of xdotool functionality (see kdotool) it’s better and safer in every way.
deleted by creator
Yes and no
This only applies to the gnome for now.
But it’s happening in KDE as well
Not as of yet
KDE still has some bugs to work out
